TouchdownBlue.com
Welcome to Touchdown Blue!

Come join our NY Giants community along with other Great Fans of the Game!

Please take a moment to register for free to discuss NY Giants Football and more.

Your friends @ TouchdownBlue.com
Giants News Alert

Giants News Wire
Training Camp Updates
 

Tom Coughlin on the Hot Seat

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Tom Coughlin on the Hot Seat

Post  Big_Pete on Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:04 pm

I think Coughlin is definately on the hot seat, in fact this week's game in Green Bay could be critical to his future with the Gmen.

If we win, all the talk will go away and we are likely in the playoffs.

lose and we are likely out of the playoff race. But there will be a lot of talk about a possible firing.

Coughlin is a heck of a coach, but I think the front office could decide it is time to move on.
avatar
Big_Pete
Giants Legend
Giants Legend


View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Tom Coughlin on the Hot Seat

Post  Big_Pete on Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:05 pm

from ESPN.com

Tom Coughlin hears the criticism
December, 23, 2010

I've had that uncomfortable conversation with New York Giants coach Tom Coughlin about job security before. It was a topic of discussion this past offseason based on the Giants' second-half collapse in '09.

Coughlin is normally resolute in saying he wants all the heat on him, but on Wednesday, he admitted to ESPNNewYork.com that the criticism can get a little noisy at times.

"I try not to let that be bothersome to me, but it's really difficult to ignore it," Coughlin told Ian O'Connor. "Every time we lose a game, that stuff comes up."

That sounds a bit different than what we're used to from Coughlin. He's known as one of the top motivators in the league, so it's a little odd when he admits that the criticism might be affecting him. I agree with O'Connor that Coughlin shouldn't be fired if the Giants miss the playoffs, but it could happen. We've heard co-owner John Mara dismiss reports that the New York Giants are on Bill Cowher's Christmas wish list, but it's not like Mara has said unequivocally that Coughlin will return in 2011.

Cowher experienced the best job security this league has to offer while working for the Rooneys in Pittsburgh. I believe John Mara and Steve Tisch are fond of Coughlin, but they don't have the patience of a Dan Rooney. Coughlin earned the benefit of the doubt with that title in '07, but a coach can lose that a lot quicker in the New York market.

"It's part of the business and there's nothing I'm going to say to change it," Coughlin said. "Win games, and it goes away. We won three in a row and nobody was saying anything about [my job]. So we've got to go win games, and I understand it. I've been in it long enough to understand.

"You've got to go win, and that's what this is all about. And we didn't win last week, so here comes the speculation again."

When he won that first Super Bowl with the Giants, Bill Parcells was a made man in the Meadowlands. The same can't be said for Parcells' close friend and protege, Coughlin. If he loses to the Green Bay Packers on Sunday afternoon, you can guarantee that the Cowher speculation will reach a new level.

It's not fair to Coughlin, but it's the reality of the situation.
avatar
Big_Pete
Giants Legend
Giants Legend


View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Tom Coughlin on the Hot Seat

Post  Big_Pete on Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:05 pm

from espn.com

Speculation on the job security of New York Giants head coach Tom Coughlin has generally been that he's safe. But with another late-season fade, he might not be.

Ralph Vacchiano of the New York Daily News takes a realistic view of Coughlin's career, noting that in five out of six of Coughlin's seasons as head coach, the team has either crumbled down the stretch, been crushed in the first round of the playoffs, or both. In fact, it may be the Super Bowl championship run of 2008 that has saved the man thus far, as those late season collapses have "become an unfortunate staple of the Coughlin Era," in Vacchiano's words.

Given the uncertainty of the offseason ahead -- and the fact that Coughlin only has one year left on his contract -- we tend to think he's pretty safe. But an embarrassing plunge out of the playoff mix over these last two weeks could change that. Should he be let go, the Giants -- with their core of talent -- would be atop any free agent head coach's wish list, including Bill Cowher.

- Tim Kavanagh
avatar
Big_Pete
Giants Legend
Giants Legend


View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Tom Coughlin on the Hot Seat

Post  Big_Pete on Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:18 pm

It sure will be interesting to see what happens.

Personally, I don't think this team is playing the style of tight disciplined football in all aspects of the game for the full 60 minutes.

Injuries are a factor, but we are still healthier than many teams. but we have too many turnovers, give up too many big plays and our special teams is aweful.

Lets be honest, these are all areas that Coughlin focuses on, yet they are still big problems deep into the team's Coughlin's 7th season. If Coughlin is to be fired, this would be one of the key factors.

I am a bit each way about it, sure Coughlin is a very good coach, and sure the NY media is fickle but what matters is results. Maybe it is time for a new coach with his new approach on things?


avatar
Big_Pete
Giants Legend
Giants Legend


View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Tom Coughlin on the Hot Seat

Post  56 Crazed Dogs on Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:04 pm

Sure, the Giants could end on a collapse and TC could be on the way out but I don't think it is likely to happen.

Firstly, This years Giants team hasn't given up by any means.
Yes, they had a major collapse against the eagles but let's not forget that they also physically beat up the three teams before them. They also beat up the eagles for 3 out of 4 quarters last week.
Now I'm no mathematician but it seems to me that the Giants beat up their opposition the last 15 out of 16 quarters. That's not too shabby.

Playing against the Packers this week will be no freebie though. The Giants are hungry and will have to go earn it. I believe they will.

However, I also believe if they don't win this week then they don't win next week against the skins. A loss against the packers will kill their morale. Skins would play hungry knowing they could crush the Giants playoff hopes.
avatar
56 Crazed Dogs
Hall of Famer
Hall of Famer


View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Tom Coughlin on the Hot Seat

Post  Big_Pete on Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:57 pm

I am not so sure, call it a hunch.

Coughlin has been a very good coach for us, but I think there are some areas of concern in the front office.

I think if the team doesn't win Coughlin's future will be tenuous. This is a very key game.
avatar
Big_Pete
Giants Legend
Giants Legend


View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Tom Coughlin on the Hot Seat

Post  56 Crazed Dogs on Fri Dec 24, 2010 8:17 am

Big_Pete wrote:
I think if the team doesn't win Coughlin's future will be tenuous. This is a very key game.
yes, there will be a lot to talk about if the Giants don't win this game.
avatar
56 Crazed Dogs
Hall of Famer
Hall of Famer


View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Tom Coughlin on the Hot Seat

Post  Pizan on Fri Dec 24, 2010 8:15 pm

Geez Pete you've been wanting to talk about firing TC since the start of the season. If they lose vs the Packers I'll talk about it.
avatar
Pizan
All-Pro
All-Pro


View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Tom Coughlin on the Hot Seat

Post  Big_Pete on Sat Dec 25, 2010 10:10 pm

Pizan wrote:Geez Pete you've been wanting to talk about firing TC since the start of the season. If they lose vs the Packers I'll talk about it.

I actually like Coughlin

all I am saying is that if we lose this week, the scrutiny will be turned up
avatar
Big_Pete
Giants Legend
Giants Legend


View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Tom Coughlin on the Hot Seat

Post  56 Crazed Dogs on Sun Dec 26, 2010 9:17 am

I don't know why everyone is so quick to throw Coughlin on flames.
Even in 2007 when the Giants beat the perfect Pats TC was under fire for much of that season. Maybe it's just a NY big market thing.
I can't wait to see the first time Big mouth Rex has a sub par season.

TC hasn't been perfect but he's only had one losing season since he's been with the Giants and that was in his first year.

Given an adequate defensive coordinator, he's proved what this team is capable of doing. Continuity can be tough when you lose good coaches (unless your the pats)
avatar
56 Crazed Dogs
Hall of Famer
Hall of Famer


View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Tom Coughlin on the Hot Seat

Post  Pizan on Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:02 am

Lets start talking. . .
avatar
Pizan
All-Pro
All-Pro


View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Tom Coughlin on the Hot Seat

Post  Big_Pete on Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:33 am


How do you rate Fewell's performance as DC?

I think there will be serious discussion about Coughlin's future. It is not that Coughlin is a bad coach, but I don't think we are getting the most out of our roster and that new perspective is needed.

Another poster on a different forum pretty much sums up Coughlin pretty well imho


To be fair, I think Coughlin is one of the better coaches in the league at player development. A big reason why we don't have many busts is because Coughlin's approach works very well with developing young players.

The problem is, when we develop them, we don't put them in positions to maximize their talent. That's moreso the Xs and Os of coaching. And that has always been an issue under Coughlin.

The man does a great job of developing talent, and managing the team and having his players ready to play and play hard, but he's not the best strategist.
avatar
Big_Pete
Giants Legend
Giants Legend


View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Tom Coughlin on the Hot Seat

Post  Big_Pete on Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:35 am

So who do you rate as a potential Head Coach?

Bill Cowher

Jeff Fisher

Gary Kubiak

Lesley Frazier

John Fox

Charlie Weis

Russ Grimm

Jason Garrett

Jim Harbaugh


Someone else?
avatar
Big_Pete
Giants Legend
Giants Legend


View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Tom Coughlin on the Hot Seat

Post  Pizan on Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:07 am

Fewell to me is inconsistent. We may never have another Spags so I have to stop comparing the DC's to him, I'll always be let down. Spags was perfect. He knew when to dial up the blitzes, when to play press man or to play a soft man or switch to zone. He seemed to know everything the offense was about to do and how to stop it. Spags was the man. Fewell will never be a spags but we could be doing much worse. I can't fault him for our incapable LBs either. But 70 some points in the last 5 quarters is a serious problem. Fewell needs to correct it. Lucky for him we play Washington.

If we beat Washington we finish the year as a 10 win team that missed the playoffs (assuming GB wins). Thats really not that bad. If that happens the only way I fire Coughlin is if we have a 99% shot at Bill Cowher. You gotta think, losing a coach like Cowher to another team just to keep Coughlin around another year is definitely weighing in on the decision. Also, getting Cowher is much less of a risk than firing TC for an unproven or already failed once coach like the guys on your list, Pete.

Cowher is returning to coaching next season. Mark my words. He lost his wife to cancer this past summer and his girls are in college. He's ready to return to coaching. But with that said, I think the 49ers job is much more appealing. Jed York will be willing to give Cowher the control he'll want and the team is already set for a 3-4 defense which he prefers. The only problem I see with that is that Cowher is an East coast guy. Played college/pro, coached, and retired all on the east coast.

If we lose against the skins, A change is needed and i'll talk about the other coaches at that time.
avatar
Pizan
All-Pro
All-Pro


View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Tom Coughlin on the Hot Seat

Post  56 Crazed Dogs on Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:45 am

I'm going in another direction than all this "fire the head coach talk".
Last time I looked, coach Coughlin hasn't thrown on a pair of cleats and shook hands at the 50 yard line.

You can't win games when your QB leads the league with 24 INT's and offense has fumbled a league leading 17 times. It's also hard to win when your receivers continually drop catchable footballs.

Sure, coaches coach but some players don't learn or just lack the talent to get any better.

Now, when Tom Coughlin and Gerald Ingram helped a few years back with Tiki's fumbling issues they got all kinds of praise around the nfl world, and you still hear about it to this day. So what, did they just forget how to keep coaching that stuff? I don't think so. These fumbling problems that our RB's have is all on them.

Eli Manning is clearly in a slump and with an o-line playing the way the giants has, Jimmy Clausen could be putting up Tom Brady numbers.
I don't know why, but Eli has tried forcing in way too many throws this season, and many of them aren't desperation passes trying to win at the end of a game. He's doing this stuff way too early and way too often.

The lossed connection of qb coach, Chris Palmer and wr coach Mike Sullivan has been hurtful if I had to guess.
I see why Coughlin may have promoted Sullivan to qb coach but he's probably just not best suited there. Sullivan did wonders with our receivers last season by putting them in a good position to succeed.
As for newer wide receiver's coach Sean Ryan, there are just no credentials there to show why he even got the job.

I tend to like Perry Fewell for the most part. He plays with a lot of different disguises (although, sometimes too many) but usually lets his defense play agressive.
Like Vin mentioned, hard to fault him for the lack of quality linebackers.

All that said. I'm not blaming Coughlin but would consider a coaching change if the right one presented itself.
My early thoughts are "If it's not Cowher than just keep Coughlin"

Prediction; The only way Coughlin keeps his job is if the Giants back into the play-offs and win 2 games.


Last edited by 56 Crazed Dogs on Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
avatar
56 Crazed Dogs
Hall of Famer
Hall of Famer


View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Tom Coughlin on the Hot Seat

Post  Big_Pete on Wed Dec 29, 2010 5:41 pm

Pizan wrote:Fewell to me is inconsistent. We may never have another Spags so I have to stop comparing the DC's to him, I'll always be let down. Spags was perfect. He knew when to dial up the blitzes, when to play press man or to play a soft man or switch to zone. He seemed to know everything the offense was about to do and how to stop it. Spags was the man. Fewell will never be a spags but we could be doing much worse. I can't fault him for our incapable LBs either. But 70 some points in the last 5 quarters is a serious problem. Fewell needs to correct it. Lucky for him we play Washington.

If we beat Washington we finish the year as a 10 win team that missed the playoffs (assuming GB wins). Thats really not that bad. If that happens the only way I fire Coughlin is if we have a 99% shot at Bill Cowher. You gotta think, losing a coach like Cowher to another team just to keep Coughlin around another year is definitely weighing in on the decision. Also, getting Cowher is much less of a risk than firing TC for an unproven or already failed once coach like the guys on your list, Pete.

Cowher is returning to coaching next season. Mark my words. He lost his wife to cancer this past summer and his girls are in college. He's ready to return to coaching. But with that said, I think the 49ers job is much more appealing. Jed York will be willing to give Cowher the control he'll want and the team is already set for a 3-4 defense which he prefers. The only problem I see with that is that Cowher is an East coast guy. Played college/pro, coached, and retired all on the east coast.

If we lose against the skins, A change is needed and i'll talk about the other coaches at that time.

I actually like the option of Cowher personally, and I do think NYG is top of his list.

he is a proven experienced coach, he is still disciplined.

The style of football they used in Pittsburgh very much fits in with the traditional Giants style of football, plus the Maras know exactly what kind of guy they are getting.

Cowher would bring in his kind of guys for sure, but I also think a shake up is what is needed.

We can switch to a 3-4 and it would be easier than people think.

Tuck could play a similar style of DE role that Justin Smith or Darnell Dockett play. Joseph can play NT; Canty, Cofield and Bernard can also play DE; OSi, Kiwi, JPP and Sintim can play OLB; Goff, Boley, Bulluck, Blackburn, Wilkinson and Dillard can all play ILB. Other than Tuck, it may be a better fit for our front seven and Tuck can play that Bruce Smith/Leonard Marshall role.

it would currently roughly shape up like:

NT - Linval Joseph, ?

LDE - Chris Canty, Barry Cofield

RDE - Justin Tuck, Rocky Bernard

LOLB - Jason Pierre-Paul, Clint Sintim

LILB - Jon Goff, Keith Bulluck, Chase Blackburn

RILB - Michael Boley, Gerris Wilkinson, Phillip Dillard

ROLB - Osi Umenyiora, Matthias Kiwanuka

sure we would need some additional help (such as a back up NT), but it could be done, Cofield and Bernard could also likely backup at NT if needed as well.

Naturally if we switch to a 3-4, there will be some teething troubles, but we have the player base to get it done. A 3-4 does add more speed and variation, both areas where we have struggled in recent years. It is also worth mentioning that there are many different styles of 3-4 defenses (and 3-4 Hybrid defenses).

With that said it may be easier to build from our current 4-3, but I think we would be facing the same situations unless we find ourselves that genuius DC.
avatar
Big_Pete
Giants Legend
Giants Legend


View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Tom Coughlin on the Hot Seat

Post  Big_Pete on Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:11 pm

Big_Pete wrote:
How do you rate Fewell's performance as DC?

I think there will be serious discussion about Coughlin's future. It is not that Coughlin is a bad coach, but I don't think we are getting the most out of our roster and that new perspective is needed.

Another poster on a different forum pretty much sums up Coughlin pretty well imho


To be fair, I think Coughlin is one of the better coaches in the league at player development. A big reason why we don't have many busts is because Coughlin's approach works very well with developing young players.

The problem is, when we develop them, we don't put them in positions to maximize their talent. That's moreso the Xs and Os of coaching. And that has always been an issue under Coughlin.

The man does a great job of developing talent, and managing the team and having his players ready to play and play hard, but he's not the best strategist.

I would be ok with Coughlin, if he brought in new coordinators who were very good tactically. But that isn't going to happen unless he is pressured to.

I guess I have to hope that Gilbride and Fewell get Head Coaching jobs, both will be in the mix.

avatar
Big_Pete
Giants Legend
Giants Legend


View user profile

Back to top Go down

Hold on !

Post  face on Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:31 pm

Without a doubt, it is important that the Giants KEEP both Coach Coughlin AND Matt Dodge. I think the special bond that has developed between thse two great leaders is an inspiration to the Giants organization , the Giants fans and the entire NFL. cheers

face
mascot
mascot


View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Tom Coughlin on the Hot Seat

Post  Pizan on Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:12 pm

56 Crazed Dogs wrote:I'm going in another direction than all this "fire the head coach talk".
Last time I looked, coach Coughlin hasn't thrown on a pair of cleats and shook hands at the 50 yard line.

You can't win games when your QB leads the league with 24 INT's and offense has fumbled a league leading 17 times. It's also hard to win when your receivers continually drop catchable footballs.

Sure, coaches coach but some players don't learn or just lack the talent to get any better.

Now, when Tom Coughlin and Gerald Ingram helped a few years back with Tiki's fumbling issues they got all kinds of praise around the nfl world, and you still hear about it to this day. So what, did they just forget how to keep coaching that stuff? I don't think so. These fumbling problems that our RB's have is all on them.

Eli Manning is clearly in a slump and with an o-line playing the way the giants has, Jimmy Clausen could be putting up Tom Brady numbers.
I don't know why, but Eli has tried forcing in way too many throws this season, and many of them aren't desperation passes trying to win at the end of a game. He's doing this stuff way too early and way too often.

The lossed connection of qb coach, Chris Palmer and wr coach Mike Sullivan has been hurtful if I had to guess.
I see why Coughlin may have promoted Sullivan to qb coach but he's probably just not best suited there. Sullivan did wonders with our receivers last season by putting them in a good position to succeed.
As for newer wide receiver's coach Sean Ryan, there are just no credentials there to show why he even got the job.

I tend to like Perry Fewell for the most part. He plays with a lot of different disguises (although, sometimes too many) but usually lets his defense play agressive.
Like Vin mentioned, hard to fault him for the lack of quality linebackers.

All that said. I'm not blaming Coughlin but would consider a coaching change if the right one presented itself.
My early thoughts are "If it's not Cowher than just keep Coughlin"

Prediction; The only way Coughlin keeps his job is if the Giants back into the play-offs and win 2 games.

I agree with a lot that. And I think your definitely on to something with the promotion of Sullivan to QB coach being apart of Eli's horrible season. Although Eli is a vet now and its time for him to take some accountability for his actions that promotion was Coughlins doing and that comes back on him.

All in all these turnovers may have definitely sealed Couhglins fate especially if we can get our hands on Cowher and fellas its looking like we have a pretty good shot.

Houston is rumored to be keeping Kubiak and trying to get Wade Phillips for the D. San Fran is rumored to want Harbaugh from Standford or Gruden if he doesn't end up in Clevland. Dallas is looking at Jason Garrett or Jeff Fisher if he gets fired. The only other team that has a shot in the Cowher sweepstakes is Carolina, IMO. But they are far from converting to a 3-4 and are far from championship contention.
avatar
Pizan
All-Pro
All-Pro


View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Tom Coughlin on the Hot Seat

Post  Big_Pete on Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:01 pm

Yeah I am thinking that we should either have Cowher or Coughlin next year. Either we should build on the platform we have, or we build on a similar (but different) platform.

I am not going to sell out on Perry Fewell yet. In fact there is a very real chance he gets a head coaching gig.

I think a big problem with our defense is our corners, other than Webster they are average at best and our safeties have been out of position trying to compensate.

Offensively I think some of the issues have to be with the receivers (other than Smith) and TEs, they are not consistent enough yet.

Offensively it just seems we aren't sharp, if receivers aren't putting down catches, or RBs fumbling or Eli's interceptions we have a good offense. It seems we are falling apart in the execution. I don't think you can fault Gilbride with that.

I totally agree that Sullivan has been part of the problem as QB coach, but Eli is a 7 year veteran, he should be able to do some of it himself.

I have been working on my latest thoughts to turn around the team, it is interesting what I came up with.
avatar
Big_Pete
Giants Legend
Giants Legend


View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Tom Coughlin on the Hot Seat

Post  Boo on Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:43 pm

Greetings... I'm new to this board and have been a Giants' fan since 1956.

My take on Coughlin is simple, he's a very good coach but I believe his job is in peril. His contract runs out after the 2011 season. Giants' ownership has a history of not wanting a lame duck HC. Couple that with his age, 64 (not old in my book), and a miss of, or early exit from the playoffs, and I believe Tom will be dismissed.

Just my opinion mind you...

Boo
mascot
mascot


View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Tom Coughlin on the Hot Seat

Post  56 Crazed Dogs on Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:26 pm

Boo wrote:Greetings... I'm new to this board and have been a Giants' fan since 1956.

My take on Coughlin is simple, he's a very good coach but I believe his job is in peril. His contract runs out after the 2011 season. Giants' ownership has a history of not wanting a lame duck HC. Couple that with his age, 64 (not old in my book), and a miss of, or early exit from the playoffs, and I believe Tom will be dismissed.

Just my opinion mind you...
Welcome to the forum and hope you stick around throughout the draft season as well. Pete and others always come up with interesting draft thoughts.

Sounds like I share much the same thoughts as you do on Tom Coughlin and his future of coaching.
avatar
56 Crazed Dogs
Hall of Famer
Hall of Famer


View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Tom Coughlin on the Hot Seat

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum