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Free Agent Linebackers

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Re: Free Agent Linebackers

Post  Big_Pete on Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:10 am

Pizan wrote:Goff is serviceable. He's a good run defender but is a HUGE liability in coverage, which is exactly why he was replaced by the Grant on passing downs and nickle packages. His lateral speed and change of direction speed isn't good at all which makes for poor coverage and an especially bad match up vs Philly.

Boley was our best backer last season by a long shot, he's one of the more effective blitzers in the league. And a good all around backer. Because Boley is our best backer we expect him to be this big time playmaker. Thats being twisted as he's not a good backer and he's the problem. Thats just not true at all.

Sintim still has the biggest upside. We just can't expect too much from him since he's returning from that knee injury.

Ideally I would like 3 new backers. I want to give Sintim a shot first but I like that we added Herzlich. What we see with Goff is what we get. I'd like to upgrade MLB now with a player like Tatupu. I would also add someone cheap like Ernie Sims who is good vs the run and blitzes effectively. Although he is a liability in coverage he could back up Boley and if Sintim struggles Boley could play SLB and Sims WLB.

Apparently Goff has worked on his lateral movement a lot and Fewell was hinting a bigger role in coverage for Goff.

Boley just got one sack last year (hurting Romo), I am not sure he is the stud pass rusher some believe, other than that what big plays did he make?
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Re: Free Agent Linebackers

Post  Big_Pete on Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:25 am

uzi716 wrote:Keith Rivers would be an amazing return. I'd do that deal without hesitation.

Rivers is apparently on PUP recovering from wrist surgery, but he is expected to be fine by opening day.

By reports he played the last 12 games with Planar Facitus, despite having a career year.

I am not saying this kind of trade is likely, but could be the kind of thing thats on the cards with Osi
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Re: Free Agent Linebackers

Post  Big_Pete on Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:28 am

uzi716 wrote:Keith Rivers would be an amazing return. I'd do that deal without hesitation.

Rivers is apparently on PUP recovering from wrist surgery, but he is expected to be fine by opening day.

By reports he played the last 12 games with Planar Facitus, despite having a career year.

I am not saying this kind of trade is likely, but could be the kind of thing thats on the cards with Osi
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Re: Free Agent Linebackers

Post  Pizan on Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:01 am

Big_Pete wrote:
Pizan wrote:Goff is serviceable. He's a good run defender but is a HUGE liability in coverage, which is exactly why he was replaced by the Grant on passing downs and nickle packages. His lateral speed and change of direction speed isn't good at all which makes for poor coverage and an especially bad match up vs Philly.

Boley was our best backer last season by a long shot, he's one of the more effective blitzers in the league. And a good all around backer. Because Boley is our best backer we expect him to be this big time playmaker. Thats being twisted as he's not a good backer and he's the problem. Thats just not true at all.

Sintim still has the biggest upside. We just can't expect too much from him since he's returning from that knee injury.

Ideally I would like 3 new backers. I want to give Sintim a shot first but I like that we added Herzlich. What we see with Goff is what we get. I'd like to upgrade MLB now with a player like Tatupu. I would also add someone cheap like Ernie Sims who is good vs the run and blitzes effectively. Although he is a liability in coverage he could back up Boley and if Sintim struggles Boley could play SLB and Sims WLB.

Apparently Goff has worked on his lateral movement a lot and Fewell was hinting a bigger role in coverage for Goff.

Boley just got one sack last year (hurting Romo), I am not sure he is the stud pass rusher some believe, other than that what big plays did he make?

Where did you read Goff worked on his lateral movement?
Also, Fewell mentioned he would like to have Goff out there more. From the quotes i read "coverage" was never mentioned. He was basically saying he would like to have him become a 3 down backer. He won't put him out there if his coverage hasn't improved. And as of now we don't know if it has so I go by what I've seen. He sucks in coverage.

First, when Boley hurt Romo that was a completed pass to Miles Austin. Not a sack. Boley sacked Kitna in the 3rd.
Second, Sacks aren't the only measurement of effective blitzing, actually just a small fraction of it. There is run blitzing and pass blitzing. As a pass rusher Boley was ranked 8th last year for LBs, despite your logic of having just 1 sack. And I'm glad you mentioned that hit on Romo because thats my case in point. That is one example of effective blitzing. You have a lot to learn my friend.

Honestly from memory Boley was solid. He screwed up one major play and that was near the goal line where he blew contain and Vick got around him for a rush TD. Otherwise Boley was our best backer.
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Re: Free Agent Linebackers

Post  Pizan on Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:14 am

Big_Pete wrote:
uzi716 wrote:Keith Rivers would be an amazing return. I'd do that deal without hesitation.

Rivers is apparently on PUP recovering from wrist surgery, but he is expected to be fine by opening day.

By reports he played the last 12 games with Planar Facitus, despite having a career year.

I am not saying this kind of trade is likely, but could be the kind of thing thats on the cards with Osi

Rivers misses alot tackles. Was always substituted on obvious passing downs/3rd downs. And could never complete a full 16 game season. A 2nd round pick and Rivers for Osi, I might think about it but thats probably not enough.

The same type of player is in Free Agency with Ernie Sims. Sims actually improved on pass coverage as the season went on in Philly. He was always good vs the run.
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Re: Free Agent Linebackers

Post  Big_Pete on Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:52 am

Pizan wrote:
Big_Pete wrote:
Pizan wrote:Goff is serviceable. He's a good run defender but is a HUGE liability in coverage, which is exactly why he was replaced by the Grant on passing downs and nickle packages. His lateral speed and change of direction speed isn't good at all which makes for poor coverage and an especially bad match up vs Philly.

Boley was our best backer last season by a long shot, he's one of the more effective blitzers in the league. And a good all around backer. Because Boley is our best backer we expect him to be this big time playmaker. Thats being twisted as he's not a good backer and he's the problem. Thats just not true at all.

Sintim still has the biggest upside. We just can't expect too much from him since he's returning from that knee injury.

Ideally I would like 3 new backers. I want to give Sintim a shot first but I like that we added Herzlich. What we see with Goff is what we get. I'd like to upgrade MLB now with a player like Tatupu. I would also add someone cheap like Ernie Sims who is good vs the run and blitzes effectively. Although he is a liability in coverage he could back up Boley and if Sintim struggles Boley could play SLB and Sims WLB.

Apparently Goff has worked on his lateral movement a lot and Fewell was hinting a bigger role in coverage for Goff.

Boley just got one sack last year (hurting Romo), I am not sure he is the stud pass rusher some believe, other than that what big plays did he make?

Where did you read Goff worked on his lateral movement?
Also, Fewell mentioned he would like to have Goff out there more. From the quotes i read "coverage" was never mentioned. He was basically saying he would like to have him become a 3 down backer. He won't put him out there if his coverage hasn't improved. And as of now we don't know if it has so I go by what I've seen. He sucks in coverage.

First, when Boley hurt Romo that was a completed pass to Miles Austin. Not a sack. Boley sacked Kitna in the 3rd.
Second, Sacks aren't the only measurement of effective blitzing, actually just a small fraction of it. There is run blitzing and pass blitzing. As a pass rusher Boley was ranked 8th last year for LBs, despite your logic of having just 1 sack. And I'm glad you mentioned that hit on Romo because thats my case in point. That is one example of effective blitzing. You have a lot to learn my friend.

Honestly from memory Boley was solid. He screwed up one major play and that was near the goal line where he blew contain and Vick got around him for a rush TD. Otherwise Boley was our best backer.

I watched the player and coach interviews on Giants.com

Goff and Fewell have interviews there

I was impressed with Goff

Our best backer, hmm. I still think overall Goff was better but Boley wasn't bad I guess
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Re: Free Agent Linebackers

Post  Big_Pete on Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:55 am

Pizan wrote:
Big_Pete wrote:
uzi716 wrote:Keith Rivers would be an amazing return. I'd do that deal without hesitation.

Rivers is apparently on PUP recovering from wrist surgery, but he is expected to be fine by opening day.

By reports he played the last 12 games with Planar Facitus, despite having a career year.

I am not saying this kind of trade is likely, but could be the kind of thing thats on the cards with Osi

Rivers misses alot tackles. Was always substituted on obvious passing downs/3rd downs. And could never complete a full 16 game season. A 2nd round pick and Rivers for Osi, I might think about it but thats probably not enough.

The same type of player is in Free Agency with Ernie Sims. Sims actually improved on pass coverage as the season went on in Philly. He was always good vs the run.

I didn't realise rivers was that bad, dont want him if thats the case. unless it is a 2nd and Rivers for Osi.
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Re: Free Agent Linebackers

Post  Pizan on Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:04 pm

Big_Pete wrote:
Pizan wrote:
Big_Pete wrote:
Pizan wrote:Goff is serviceable. He's a good run defender but is a HUGE liability in coverage, which is exactly why he was replaced by the Grant on passing downs and nickle packages. His lateral speed and change of direction speed isn't good at all which makes for poor coverage and an especially bad match up vs Philly.

Boley was our best backer last season by a long shot, he's one of the more effective blitzers in the league. And a good all around backer. Because Boley is our best backer we expect him to be this big time playmaker. Thats being twisted as he's not a good backer and he's the problem. Thats just not true at all.

Sintim still has the biggest upside. We just can't expect too much from him since he's returning from that knee injury.

Ideally I would like 3 new backers. I want to give Sintim a shot first but I like that we added Herzlich. What we see with Goff is what we get. I'd like to upgrade MLB now with a player like Tatupu. I would also add someone cheap like Ernie Sims who is good vs the run and blitzes effectively. Although he is a liability in coverage he could back up Boley and if Sintim struggles Boley could play SLB and Sims WLB.

Apparently Goff has worked on his lateral movement a lot and Fewell was hinting a bigger role in coverage for Goff.

Boley just got one sack last year (hurting Romo), I am not sure he is the stud pass rusher some believe, other than that what big plays did he make?

Where did you read Goff worked on his lateral movement?
Also, Fewell mentioned he would like to have Goff out there more. From the quotes i read "coverage" was never mentioned. He was basically saying he would like to have him become a 3 down backer. He won't put him out there if his coverage hasn't improved. And as of now we don't know if it has so I go by what I've seen. He sucks in coverage.

First, when Boley hurt Romo that was a completed pass to Miles Austin. Not a sack. Boley sacked Kitna in the 3rd.
Second, Sacks aren't the only measurement of effective blitzing, actually just a small fraction of it. There is run blitzing and pass blitzing. As a pass rusher Boley was ranked 8th last year for LBs, despite your logic of having just 1 sack. And I'm glad you mentioned that hit on Romo because thats my case in point. That is one example of effective blitzing. You have a lot to learn my friend.

Honestly from memory Boley was solid. He screwed up one major play and that was near the goal line where he blew contain and Vick got around him for a rush TD. Otherwise Boley was our best backer.

I watched the player and coach interviews on Giants.com

Goff and Fewell have interviews there

I was impressed with Goff

Our best backer, hmm. I still think overall Goff was better but Boley wasn't bad I guess

I'm not getting your logic there. A backer who only plays 2 downs and cant cover for shit is better overall than a backer who played every down for us, ranked 8th in effective blitzing, and is one of the surest tacklers in the league... Thats funny. Your being stubborn. Boley is our best backer until Goff can cover or become effective blitzing. The only thing he does for us now is stop the run.

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Re: Free Agent Linebackers

Post  Big_Pete on Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:20 pm

Pizan wrote:
Big_Pete wrote:
Pizan wrote:
Big_Pete wrote:
Pizan wrote:Goff is serviceable. He's a good run defender but is a HUGE liability in coverage, which is exactly why he was replaced by the Grant on passing downs and nickle packages. His lateral speed and change of direction speed isn't good at all which makes for poor coverage and an especially bad match up vs Philly.

Boley was our best backer last season by a long shot, he's one of the more effective blitzers in the league. And a good all around backer. Because Boley is our best backer we expect him to be this big time playmaker. Thats being twisted as he's not a good backer and he's the problem. Thats just not true at all.

Sintim still has the biggest upside. We just can't expect too much from him since he's returning from that knee injury.

Ideally I would like 3 new backers. I want to give Sintim a shot first but I like that we added Herzlich. What we see with Goff is what we get. I'd like to upgrade MLB now with a player like Tatupu. I would also add someone cheap like Ernie Sims who is good vs the run and blitzes effectively. Although he is a liability in coverage he could back up Boley and if Sintim struggles Boley could play SLB and Sims WLB.

Apparently Goff has worked on his lateral movement a lot and Fewell was hinting a bigger role in coverage for Goff.

Boley just got one sack last year (hurting Romo), I am not sure he is the stud pass rusher some believe, other than that what big plays did he make?

Where did you read Goff worked on his lateral movement?
Also, Fewell mentioned he would like to have Goff out there more. From the quotes i read "coverage" was never mentioned. He was basically saying he would like to have him become a 3 down backer. He won't put him out there if his coverage hasn't improved. And as of now we don't know if it has so I go by what I've seen. He sucks in coverage.

First, when Boley hurt Romo that was a completed pass to Miles Austin. Not a sack. Boley sacked Kitna in the 3rd.
Second, Sacks aren't the only measurement of effective blitzing, actually just a small fraction of it. There is run blitzing and pass blitzing. As a pass rusher Boley was ranked 8th last year for LBs, despite your logic of having just 1 sack. And I'm glad you mentioned that hit on Romo because thats my case in point. That is one example of effective blitzing. You have a lot to learn my friend.

Honestly from memory Boley was solid. He screwed up one major play and that was near the goal line where he blew contain and Vick got around him for a rush TD. Otherwise Boley was our best backer.

I watched the player and coach interviews on Giants.com

Goff and Fewell have interviews there

I was impressed with Goff

Our best backer, hmm. I still think overall Goff was better but Boley wasn't bad I guess

I'm not getting your logic there. A backer who only plays 2 downs and cant cover for shit is better overall than a backer who played every down for us, ranked 8th in effective blitzing, and is one of the surest tacklers in the league... Thats funny. Your being stubborn. Boley is our best backer until Goff can cover or become effective blitzing. The only thing he does for us now is stop the run.


Perhaps your right, but I guess it comes back to expectations, I did expect to see more from Boley. Hopefully that happens this year.

Lets be honest, our LBs got torched in coverage, Boley was part of that, but your probably right in him being our best LB last year.
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Re: Free Agent Linebackers

Post  Pizan on Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:34 pm

Yea me saying Boley is our best backer isn't saying much. We probably have one of the worst LB groups in the league. Its gonna stay that way if we continually decide to ignore it. We had a chance this year in Free Agency to make huge upgrades to it, and we missed out.

We have a good defense with the talent on the Dline and in the secondary but we wont have a great defense without a great LB.
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Re: Free Agent Linebackers

Post  Big_Pete on Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:07 pm

Pizan wrote:Yea me saying Boley is our best backer isn't saying much. We probably have one of the worst LB groups in the league. Its gonna stay that way if we continually decide to ignore it. We had a chance this year in Free Agency to make huge upgrades to it, and we missed out.

We have a good defense with the talent on the Dline and in the secondary but we wont have a great defense without a great LB.

yeah our best backer may even have been Deon Grant is his LB style third safety spots.

I am impressed with the young LB talent we have this year, so I am hoping quality play emerges (much like our WR group when Plax/Toomoer left). I think our LB play has potential but needs to take it to the next level. If Goff and Sintim can step up for example, it looks much better.

Greg Jones and Mark Herzlich will be pushing for playing time earlier rather than later, both are the instinctive style of LB we badly need.
Williams and Tracy have some good physical tools, Tracy may get some reps at SLB, he looked good early last year.
Williams is more of a developmental guy, but thats ok being behind Boley
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Re: Free Agent Linebackers

Post  Big_Pete on Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:21 pm

here is the Goff interview
http://www.giants.com/media-vault/videos/One-on-One-LB-Jon-Goff/797a1275-e139-4d3e-b7db-5b0efbb5b40b

and Fewells, he does mention both Jon Goff and Clint Sintim specifically
http://www.giants.com/media-vault/videos/DC-Perry-Fewell/a20703a2-31c9-4b69-84af-8c4005afff68

It seems like Goff is going to have a bigger role and Sintim is expected to step up, but will have to compete.
Sounds like Sintim has improved, but they are holding him back a little as he is coming back from his ACL.
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