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Best Oline - Giantsor Jets

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Best Oline - Giantsor Jets

Post  Big_Pete on Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:38 am

from http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/15/who-has-the-best-o-line-giants-or-jets/

Who Has the Best O-Line? Giants or Jets?
By KC Joyner

The Football Scientist, KC Joyner, is a Fifth Down contributor. Lab results from “Scientific Football 2009,” to be published in August, are now available for those who preorder the book.
New York Giants
New York Jets

One of the things I enjoy most about this job is helping to resolve the most compelling bar arguments of the day. Who is the better QB – Brady or Peyton? Who is the better wide receiver – Owens or Moss? Who is the better pass rusher – Ware or Porter?

As interesting as those discussions are, the “who is better” argument I have the highest interest in this off-season is which offensive line is better – the Giants’ or the Jets’? There are any number of ways to go about analyzing this, but since I have completed the individual performance metrics for every player on those teams’ offensive lines, I figure we might as well go about it in a head-to-head, metric vs. metric format.

The guidelines will be as follows:

Run blocking – The main metrics here are Point of Attack (POA) win percentage and Yards Per Attempt (YPA). The POA win percentage is based on tape reviews that track how often each lineman is blocking at the point of attack of a running play. In a nutshell, a lineman is given a POA win whenever he creates a crease for the ballcarrier. He is given a POA loss whenever the defender gets past him at the POA. An 80% POA win rate is considered the low end of acceptable, while 90% is considered the gold standard. YPAs can vary greatly depending on the quality of the ballcarrier, but four yards are considered the low end of acceptable.

Pass blocking – The main thrust of pass blocking is to keep the defender from making what NFL scouts call splash plays. Splash plays include sacks, offensive holding penalties, knocking passes down at the line of scrimmage and hitting the quarterback while he is passing. The fewer of these an offensive lineman allows, the better. A tiebreaker in this area will be the types of sacks given up; a lineman who only allows coverage sacks is probably better than a lineman who allows one-on-one sacks (i.e. sacks that are gained in one-on-one blocking situations and happen in the pocket in three seconds or less).

Now that we have those out of the way, let’s take a look at the Battle of New York!

Left tackle – D’Brickashaw Ferguson vs. David Diehl

Run blocking:

Ferguson – 115 POA attempts, 527 yards gained, 98 POA wins. That equates to an 85.2% POA win rate and 4.6 POA YPA.

Diehl – 142 POA attempts, 768 yards, 110 POA wins. That equals an impressive 5.4 YPA but an equally unimpressive 77.5% POA win rate.

Run blocking advantage – Ferguson’s POA lead gives him the edge here.

Pass blocking:

Ferguson – Gave up three sacks and had zero offensive holding penalties against him. Defenders rushing against him tallied one tipped pass at the line and zero times hitting the quarterback while he was passing the ball. Total splash plays – four.

Diehl – Gave up one sack and had one offensive holding penalty. Gave up one tipped pass and two hits on QB while passing. Total splash plays – five.

Pass blocking advantage – To borrow the term frequently used in my friend Nick Bakay’s hugely funny Tale of the Tape reviews (the format of which I am somewhat borrowing for this article,) let’s call this a push.

The bottom line – The metrics clearly show the reason the Giants are said to be considering moving Diehl inside. Advantage Ferguson. Jets lead, 1-0.

Left guard – Alan Faneca vs. Rich Seubert

Run blocking:

Faneca – 156 POA attempts, 844 yards, 137 POA wins. Faneca’s POA win rate – 87.8%. Faneca’s YPA – 5.4.

Seubert – 191 POA attempts, an incredible 1,459 yards, 169 POA wins. Seubert’s POA win rate – 88.5%. Seubert’s YPA 7.6.

Run blocking advantage – Faneca is the more heralded run blocker and his numbers are quite good, but Seubert was more consistent and his ballcarriers had a YPA two yards higher. Seubert surprisingly wins this one.

Pass blocking:

Faneca – Five sacks allowed, zero offensive holding penalties, zero tipped passes, three QB hits while passing. Total splash plays – eight.

Seubert – Three and a half sacks allowed, two offensive holding penalties, zero tipped passes, one QB hit while passing. Total splash plays – six and a half.

Pass blocking advantage – Maybe a slight edge to Seubert but could also go as a push.

The bottom line: The numbers say that Seubert should have been the one going to Hawaii after the season. Advantage Seubert. Teams are tied at 1-1.


Center – Nick Mangold vs. Shaun O’Hara

Run blocking:

Mangold – 141 POA attempts, 857 yards, 133 POA wins. Mangold’s POA win rate – a phenomenal 94.3%. Mangold’s YPA – 6.1.

O’Hara – 165 POA attempts, 1,181 yards, 139 POA wins. O’Hara’s POA win rate 84.2%. O’Hara’s YPA – 7.2.

Run blocking advantage – O’Hara’s YPA is very good but Mangold’s YPA in relation to the rest of his line is better. Mangold also had a huge POA win rate edge, so he wins this one fairly easily.

Pass blocking:

Mangold – Two sacks allowed, one offensive holding penalty, zero tipped passes, one QB hit while passing. Total splash plays – three.

O’Hara – One sack allowed, one offensive holding penalty, two tipped passes, two QB hit while passing. Total splash plays – six.

Pass blocking advantage – Mangold has a clear edge here as well.

The bottom line – Both made the Pro Bowl but Mangold is the best center in the NFL. Advantage Mangold. Jets lead 2-1.

Right guard – Brandon Moore vs. Chris Snee

Run blocking:

Moore – 157 POA attempts, 915 yards, 134 POA wins. Moore’s POA win rate – 85.4%. Moore’s YPA – 5.8.

Snee – 204 POA attempts, 1,321 yards, 175 POA wins. Snee’s POA win rate – 85.8%. Snee’s YPA – 6.5

Run blocking advantage – The POA win rate is almost identical. Snee has an edge in YPA but his total is 4th best on his line while Moore’s total is 3rd best on his. I’d call this a push.

Pass blocking:

Moore – Three and a half sacks allowed, two offensive holding penalties, three tipped passes, zero QB hit while passing. Total splash plays – eight and a half.

Snee – One and a half sacks, zero offensive holding penalties, zero tipped passes, zero QB hit while passing. Total splash plays – one and a half.

Pass blocking advantage – Snee takes this one hands down.

The bottom line – Snee’s pass blocking win gives him the win here as well. Teams are tied 2-2.

Right tackle – Damien Woody vs. Kareem McKenzie

Run blocking:

Woody – 134 POA attempts, 845 yards, 118 POA wins. Woody’s POA win rate – 88.1%. Woody’s YPA – 6.3.

McKenzie – 122 POA attempts, 637 yards, 104 POA wins. McKenzie’s POA win rate – 85.2%. McKenzie’s YPA – 5.2

Run blocking advantage – Woody’s overall totals are better not only head-to-head, but also in comparison with his teammates. Woody had the best YPA on his team and the 2nd best POA win rate. McKenzie had the lowest YPA on his team and was third in POA win rate. Woody is the clear winner here.

Pass blocking:

Woody – Four sacks allowed, zero offensive holding penalties, zero tipped passes, zero QB hit while passing. Total splash plays – four.

McKenzie – Six sacks allowed, zero offensive holding penalties, one tipped pass, zero QB hit while passing. Total splash plays – seven.

Pass blocking advantage – Woody again crosses the line first.

The bottom line – Woody had better totals in both areas and therefore notches the win not only for himself, but also for his team by a 3-2 total.

Going into this, I would have thought the Giants would have won this hands down, but the metrics show that isn’t the case. The Jets’ line is not only the best in New York; it may also be the best in the NFL.
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Re: Best Oline - Giantsor Jets

Post  Big_Pete on Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:44 am

I think this very subjective and disagree somwhat

The Giants Oline had almost 1/3 more plays than the Jets Oline

But then again the Jets should have a good Oline, they have invested alot more than the Giants in both picks and money

You have to consider the depth

The Giants have Whimper and Boothe; when called upon in recent years the offense didn't miss a beat.
Plus Koets who is solid and Beatty our 2nd round pick

Add in the fact that there is still alot of tread on most of the Giants Oline and personally I have to give this to the Giants Oline.

The Jets Oline is solid though
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Re: Best Oline - Giantsor Jets

Post  56 Crazed Dogs on Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:11 pm

Nice read.
Not a jets fan but they will be training about 20 miles from my house this summer.
I plan on riding my motorcycle up there for a practice or two. This will be something I'll look for.
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